Interview of the President by South African Broadcasting Corporation
SOURCE: The White House (DC)
The text of an interview with President Barack Obama by the South African Broadcasting Corporation, conducted in the Diplomatic Reception Room of the White House on July 13, 2010:
Q Mr. President, you reached out yesterday to President Yoweri Museveni of Uganda, pledging U.S. support after the twin bombings in Kampala. Can you share some of the details of that conversation with us?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I expressed, obviously most immediately, the condolences of the American people for this horrific crime that had been committed. And I told the President that the United States was going to be fully supportive of a thorough investigation of what had happened.
Al Shabaab has now taken credit, taken responsibility for this atrocity, and we are going to redouble our efforts, working with Uganda, working with the African Union, to make sure that organizations like this are not able to kill Africans with impunity.
And it was so tragic and ironic to see an explosion like this take place when people in Africa were celebrating and watching the World Cup take place in South Africa. On the one hand, you have a vision of an Africa on the move, an Africa that is unified, an Africa that is modernizing and creating opportunities; and on the other hand, you've got a vision of al Qaeda and Al Shabaab that is about destruction and death. And I think it presents a pretty clear contrast in terms of the future that most Africans want for themselves and their children. And we need to make sure that we are doing everything we can to support those who want to build, as opposed to want to destroy.
Q These attacks are very much about what is happening in Somalia today. How does that change, if at all, the game plan of the United States with regard to the Transitional Government that is in power there?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, look, obviously Somalia has gone through a generation now of war, of conflict. The Transitional Government there is still getting its footing. But what we know is that if Al Shabaab takes more and more control within Somalia, that it is going to be exporting violence the way it just did in Uganda. And so we've got to have a multinational effort. This is not something that the United States should do alone, that Uganda or others should do alone, but rather the African Union, in its mission in Somalia, working with the Transitional Government to try to stabilize the situation and start putting that country on a pathway that provides opportunity for people, as opposed to creating a breeding ground for terrorism.
Q Former U.S. Ambassador to Tanzania -- you might know him -- Charles Stith -- has just written a piece about radical Islam in Africa specifically, and I'd like to quote something from it. He says, "It became clear to me that the dirty little secret that no one wanted to discuss openly was political Islam's corrosive effect and adverse impact on development and stability on the African continent. It is inarguable that Islam is a factor in Africa."
In your view, are there strategies in place to deal with this?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think -- look, Islam is a great religion. It is one that has prospered side by side with other religions within Africa. And one of the great strengths of Africa is its diversity not only of faith, but of races and ethnicities. But what you have seen in terms of radical Islam is an approach that says that any efforts to modernize, any efforts to provide basic human rights, any efforts to democratize are somehow anti-Islam. And I think that is absolutely wrong. I think the vast majority of people of the Islamic faith reject that. I think the people of Africa reject it.
And what you've seen in some of the statements that have been made by these terrorist organizations is that they do not regard African life as valuable in and of itself. They see it as a potential place where you can carry out ideological battles that kill innocents without regard to long-term consequences for their short-term tactical gains.
And that's why it's so important, even as we deal with organizations like Al Shabaab militarily, that, more importantly, we also are dealing with the development agenda and building on models of countries like South Africa that are trying to move in the right direction, that have successful entrepreneurs, that have democracy and have basic human freedoms -- that we highlight those as an example whereby Africans can seize their own destiny, and hopefully the United States can be an effective partner in that.
Q So this is a link to poverty, that's what you're saying.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, it's not just link to poverty. I mean, I think there's an ideological component to it that also has to be rejected. There's -- obviously young people, if they don't have opportunity, are more vulnerable to these misguided ideologies, but we also have to directly confront the fact that issues like a anti-democratic, anti-free speech, anti-freedom of religion agenda, which is what an organization like Al Shabaab promotes, also often goes hand in hand with violence.
Q Sudan. The International Criminal Court has added the charges of genocide to the arrest warrant of Sudan's President Omar al-Bashir. There's a view in Africa, certainly with the African Union, that the pursuit of President Bashir will be undermining or detrimental to the Doha peace process. What's your view?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, my view is that the ICC has put forward an arrest warrant. We think that it is important for the government of Sudan to cooperate with the ICC. We think that it is also important that people are held accountable for the actions that took place in Darfur that resulted in, at minimum, hundreds of thousands of lives being lost.
And so there has to be accountability, there has to be transparency. Obviously we are active in trying to make sure that Sudan is stabilized; that humanitarian aid continues to go in there; that efforts with respect to a referendum and the possibility of Southern Sudan gaining independence under the agreement that was brokered, that that moves forward.
So it is a balance that has to be struck. We want to move forward in a constructive fashion in Sudan, but we also think that there has to be accountability, and so we are fully supportive of the ICC.
Q Is peace not at risk if he were to present himself to the ICC?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that peace is at risk if there's no transparency and accountability of the actions that are taking place, whether it's in Sudan or anywhere else in the world.
Q The World Cup, Mr. President, you mentioned that. To a certain extent, I imagine around the world, it was overshadowed by what happened in Uganda. But South Africa was basking in the glory of having successfully hosted this World Cup. But let's acknowledge the skeptics -- and there were quite a few of them and they were quite loud. I wonder if you were one of them.
THE PRESIDENT: No, I wasn't. I, having visited South Africa and seen the extraordinary vitality of the people there, having gotten to know President Zuma and understanding the extraordinary pride that his administration expressed, which I think was a pride that was shared by all South Africans, I had confidence that this was going to be a success.
Obviously, it was just a terrific showcase, not just for South Africa, but for Africa as a whole, because what it lifted up was the fact that Africa -- all the stereotypes that it suffers under, all the false perspectives about Africa capacity, that when given an opportunity, Africa is a continent full of leaders, entrepreneurs, governments that can operate effectively. What we now have to do is build on that positive image that comes out of the World Cup.
And when I was in Ghana last year, I was very clear on what I think the agenda has to be -- Africa for Africans. That means that we can be partners with Africans, but ultimately, on whether it's issues of eliminating corruption, ensuring smooth transitions of democratic governments, making sure that businesses are able to thrive and prosper and that markets are working for the smallest farmer and not just the most well-connected person -- those are issues that Africans can work on together.
And in terms of my orientation working to help in Africa's development, we want to provide resources, but we want to partner with those who are interested in growing their own capacity over time and not having a long-term dependency on foreign aid.
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